Outlook - XP Outlook Express(IE6/OE6) replacement.

Before I make a mistake....

After reading similar topics in this group, would this be an
appropriate forum to ask a few subject questions?

Thank you.

Shoot away!
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Oct. 1, 2004 ~ Sept. 30, 2010
Imperial Beach, CA

I have spoken with you before. Probably on this topic.

I have procrastinated on upgrading this IE6/OE6 combination for far
too long.

I need a second opinion on the following:

. It looks like Live Mail(WLM) is my best choice for email
replacement. IE6 is
really not an issue, and will be corrected separately.

. My basic email requirements are pretty simple:
. Obviously, client based.
. I need the ability to easily migrate OE's parts(*.wab, *.dbx,
folders, etc.).
. I need multiple identities.
. I need a text mode email configuration option.
. I need to know if a new address book will be compatible with XP's
internal
fax. IOW, the internal fax will fetch the fax number from the
AB. Will the
AB still retain this compatibility.
. Can WLM be installed/configured concurrently to OE's presence?
. And, an easy path toward a later W7 migration.

With the exception of the AB/fax issue, these requirements seem pretty
simple,
to me. Do you think I am on the right track?

Thanks, for your help.

You can try the latest version of WLM, but I do not know if it wil satisfy
your requirements.  I am not sure the very latest version can be installed on
XP.

You might consider other options as well, both MS and non-MS software.  I
personally will never use WLM.

steve







I have spoken with you before. Probably on this topic.

I have procrastinated on upgrading this IE6/OE6 combination for far
too long.

I need a second opinion on the following:

. It looks like Live Mail(WLM) is my best choice for email
replacement. IE6 is
really not an issue, and will be corrected separately.

. My basic email requirements are pretty simple:
. Obviously, client based.
. I need the ability to easily migrate OE's parts(*.wab, *.dbx,
folders, etc.).
. I need multiple identities.
. I need a text mode email configuration option.
. I need to know if a new address book will be compatible with XP's
internal
fax. IOW, the internal fax will fetch the fax number from the
AB. Will the
AB still retain this compatibility.
. Can WLM be installed/configured concurrently to OE's presence?
. And, an easy path toward a later W7 migration.

With the exception of the AB/fax issue, these requirements seem pretty
simple,
to me. Do you think I am on the right track?

Thanks, for your help.

I have spoken with you before. Probably on this topic.

I have procrastinated on upgrading this IE6/OE6 combination for far
too long.

I need a second opinion on the following:

. It looks like Live Mail(WLM) is my best choice for email
replacement. IE6 is
really not an issue, and will be corrected separately.

. My basic email requirements are pretty simple:
. Obviously, client based.
. I need the ability to easily migrate OE's parts(*.wab, *.dbx,
folders, etc.).
. I need multiple identities.
. I need a text mode email configuration option.
. I need to know if a new address book will be compatible with XP's
internal
fax. IOW, the internal fax will fetch the fax number from the
AB. Will the
AB still retain this compatibility.
. Can WLM be installed/configured concurrently to OE's presence?
. And, an easy path toward a later W7 migration.

With the exception of the AB/fax issue, these requirements seem pretty
simple,
to me. Do you think I am on the right track?

Thanks, for your help.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are planning on keepin XP, I would keep OE. I have an XP machine
still running OE and a Win7 machine. On the Win7, I had WLMail and it was
barely tollerable. When they made the change to WLMail 2011, (which you
will not get in XP), I had enough and switched to Thunderbird. But again, no
reason to abandon OE. No other e-mail client I know of allows swicching
identities. You can have more than one with separate Inboxes, Sent Items
etc., but they will be in the same instance of the e-mail client.

If you want to try WLMail or Thunderbird, you can test them out right
along side of OE.

You can run WLMail and OE at the same time and download incoming mail to
both if you want to give it a try. Sent messages will be only in the Sent
Items folder for the e-mail client used to send.

You can download it here if you wish.

Windows Live Mail (Overview & Features):
http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview

I would suggest you subscribe to the WLMail newsgroup and read some of the
posts & replies. That will give you a better idea of what it is like.

Windows Live Mail [Desktop] Newsgroup.

In your newsreader:

On the Web:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

If you want to run OE and WLMail at the same time:

In OE and WLMail:

Tools | Accounts | Mail | Properties | Advanced - Check: Leave a copy of
messages on the server.

In OE or WLMail, (not both), check to Delete messages after X days to
satisfy your allotted space you get from your server.

Note that when you install WLMail, it will become the default e-mail
client. If you want to reclaim OE as default, see this.

Control Panel | Add/Remove Programs | Set Program Access and Defaults |
Custom + Down Arrow | Select the radio button for Outlook Express.

Make OE the default e-mail client:
http://www.oehelp.com/oedef.aspx

I do not use a fax with my PC, so I cannot answer that part of your
question.

As far as IE goes, I would give IE8 a try. It is a much more secure
program than IE6. it is a little different, but I got used to it quickely.
You can always remove it.

Download IE8 to your Desktop. Do not use Windows or Microsoft Updates.

Internet Explorer 8 download:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/worldwide-sites.aspx

Restart your computer. With no other programs running, disable your
anti-virus program and any spyware or spam programs you may have. If you
are running a third party firewall, disable it and enable the Windows
firewall.

Now install IE8 from the Desktop. When you are done, restart your computer
twice and then make sure your disabled programs are running again.

Also see: How to solve Internet Explorer 8 installation problems
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949220
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Oct. 1, 2004 ~ Sept. 30, 2010
Imperial Beach, CA

WLM will import the messages. The imported storage folders are marked as
such. If you have a complicated .wab structure, that will fail. WLM just
uses a "flat" model; nested entries and groups will not be carried over.


WLM has done away with Identities.


WLM has that.


No idea. I never had a reason to test that.


Yes; but WLM automatically takes over as the default mail handler. First
time I installed it (back when 'deskotp' was still in the name) WLM also
deleted the MSOE shortcuts, thus hiding OE away from user access. This led
to many mistakenly believing that WLM had removed MSOE. It had not.


Windows 7 does not ship with an email client. WLM is intended for W7. In
fact, the latest version of WLM will not run under Windows XP.


A couple of the differences between WLM and MSOE that have drawn criticism:

Identities: WLM dropped them.

Account folders: WLM development team paid attention to MSOE users calls for
separate folder structure for each configured account. There is no option
for a global Inbox (which MSOE has).

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

.
d
m:
for



Thanks Bruce, Steve, and Norman, for your answers.

I am going to review the text more carefully, but wanted
to add a tiny bit of clarification.

1. I may have incorrectly described "multiple identities".
I simple meant the ability to have multiple email identities
where complete unique environments exist used to serve
unique email accounts. Each account is manually switched
to. Then, each identity is like a separate mail client only
to serve one address. OE handles this nicely, and although
I do not know, I cannot hardly believe this is not available in
WLM/others.

identities. You can have more than one with separate Inboxes,
Sent Items etc., but they will be in the same instance of the
e-mail client"

I "think" we are talking about the same thing. But, the wording
about "switching" confuses me.

2. Long term, I am not planning on XP retention. I want to finish
this email conversion for eventual W7 migration.

3. I am under the understanding that IE6/OE6 were/are integrated.
And, I cannot just migrate to IE8 without replacing OE6. I have
been using "Chrome" where IE6 might falter. I do not have
any issues with retention of OE. but wanted to replace IE/OE
before moving on to a W7 migration so that effort would be
behind me.

4. If W7 has no mail client preference, I really do not have any
problem with a non-MS mail client migration, like Thunder-
bird or other. I just thought WLM would simulate OE more
closely, and lessen the migration effort.

So, in summary, I am just trying to migrate from OE6 to some-
thing compatible, and replace the IE6/OE6 bundle with IE8.
Where later, I can begin a W7 migration. But, it does not sound
like WLM is gonna' be my best choice.

Thanks again.


4.

I used Identities in MSOE. They could be given different names, and one
could lock access to the Identity by setting a password (but the data was
not secured by the password). No, Windows Live Mail does not implement
Identities. An older version had a menu option as if it did, but throw up a
notification that Identities could not be used. The latest version does not
even have that menu item, that I can find.


I am not certain what you mean be "instance". But Mozilla Thunderbird
definitely has different Profile folders in the Windows file structure. As
did MSOE when I used "Identities" with it.


MSOE was included with MSIE through version 6. You installed MSIE6, you got
MSOE6 as a part of the install. Beginning with MSIE7, no email client was
included with the browser. Upgrading MSIE did not affect MSOE. However,
beginning with Windows 7, no email client is included with Windows at all.
Not in the retail boxed versions, anyway; OEM installs sometimes include
Windows Live Mail, but that inclusion was made by the OEM, not by Microsoft.


Once I gave up on MSOE, I really never looked back. I changed to using
Pegasus Mail in 2001, and tried assorted free news clients until settling on
40tude Dialog. I only used MSOE for the HTTPMail access to Hotmail accounts;
and gave it up altogether when Microsoft killed the WebDAV protocol in favor
of DeltaSync. At this time, WLM is the only client with the DeltaSynch
protocol for HTTPMail access to Hotmail accounts. And that is the only
reason I use WLM.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

In this reply, I have discussed the question of identities only.

Outlook Express (in Win XP) allowed a user to establish multiple
Furthermore, it was possible to switch between "Identities" and
to protect each "Identity" with a password - to provide a degree
of privacy.

Each "Identity" had access to his (or her) own section of the
Windows address book (*.wab).  Consequently, Husband' identity
had access to "Shared Contacts" and "Husband's Contacts".  Wife's
identity had access to "Shared Contacts" and "Wife's Contacts".

The system worked reasonably well.  However, it was not difficult
for a determined user to bypass password protection.  Problems
also occurred with email subscriptions that offered multiple
email addresses (where additional addresses were aliases for the
primary address).

WLMail does not offer separate "Identities".  However, you can
achieve a similar objective by creating separate "User Accounts"
in Windows XP, Vista, or Windows 7.  Windows "User Accounts"
offer improved security - and allow each "User" can configure
Windows according to his/her personal preferences.  Importantly,
each "User" will have access to an entirely separate instance of
WLMail.

The folder structure in WLMail is fundamentally different from
Outlook Express.  By default, OE6 downloads emails (from POP3
servers) into one single Inbox (even if the user has more than
one email address).

WLMail creates a separate set of folders for each email address
(Inbox, Outbox, Sent Items, Drafts, and Deleted Items).
Consequently, WLMail will download emails for husband@email.com
into a separate Inbox for that mail account.  Similarly, it will
download emails for wife@email.com into a separate Inbox for that
mail account.

Just to add to the other comments:

WLM does not have the Identities feature.

OE was stripped from IE, so if you upgrade IE now, you will not affect (most
likely) OE's functionality and you will retain OE6.

And there is this option as well:  www.oehelp.com/OEnWin7.aspx

steve




Thanks Bruce, Steve, and Norman, for your answers.

I am going to review the text more carefully, but wanted
to add a tiny bit of clarification.

1. I may have incorrectly described "multiple identities".
I simple meant the ability to have multiple email identities
where complete unique environments exist used to serve
unique email accounts. Each account is manually switched
to. Then, each identity is like a separate mail client only
to serve one address. OE handles this nicely, and although
I do not know, I cannot hardly believe this is not available in
WLM/others.

identities. You can have more than one with separate Inboxes,
Sent Items etc., but they will be in the same instance of the
e-mail client"

I "think" we are talking about the same thing. But, the wording
about "switching" confuses me.

2. Long term, I am not planning on XP retention. I want to finish
this email conversion for eventual W7 migration.

3. I am under the understanding that IE6/OE6 were/are integrated.
And, I cannot just migrate to IE8 without replacing OE6. I have
been using "Chrome" where IE6 might falter. I do not have
any issues with retention of OE. but wanted to replace IE/OE
before moving on to a W7 migration so that effort would be
behind me.

4. If W7 has no mail client preference, I really do not have any
problem with a non-MS mail client migration, like Thunder-
bird or other. I just thought WLM would simulate OE more
closely, and lessen the migration effort.

So, in summary, I am just trying to migrate from OE6 to some-
thing compatible, and replace the IE6/OE6 bundle with IE8.
Where later, I can begin a W7 migration. But, it does not sound
like WLM is gonna' be my best choice.

Thanks again.


4.

Correct.  I run OE and IE8 (well, strictly I use IE8 occasionally,
preferring Firefox most of the time.

Does MS Outlook have Identities or something similar?

DAS
--
To reply directly replace 'nospam' with 'schmetterling'
--

.
m...
as
st
r.
he
st
so
In
ty
ls
ion




Once again, thanks Norman, Bob, Steve, and DAS, for your
contributions, answers, and suggestions.

After replacing this OE6, I had planned to replace IE6 with IE8,
and blow away IE6. Of course, removing IE6 would remove OE6
as well. I also wondered if installing IE8 would itself, force the
removal of IE6/OE6. These were my reasons for the initial OE6
correction plan first.

But,DAS indicates a coexistent OE and IE8. This sounds like
my best plan initially to get me IE8 support while letting IE6
remain dormant only as life support for the remaining OE6.

Then, as phase two, I can remedy the OE6 issue after a more
careful review of various email clients.

The other issue is that my wife uses this system. If I get it all
torn up in the middle of a migration, she is not going to be a
happy camper if her email identity(s) are not working. Luckily,
our ISP has a webmail access that can be substituted during
a migration outage.

Thanks again, for everyone's knowledge. I believe this discussion
has saved me from some costly(aka mistakes) false starts.

Once again, thanks Norman, Bob, Steve, and DAS, for your
contributions, answers, and suggestions.

After replacing this OE6, I had planned to replace IE6 with IE8,
and blow away IE6. Of course, removing IE6 would remove OE6
as well. I also wondered if installing IE8 would itself, force the
removal of IE6/OE6. These were my reasons for the initial OE6
correction plan first.

But,DAS indicates a coexistent OE and IE8. This sounds like
my best plan initially to get me IE8 support while letting IE6
remain dormant only as life support for the remaining OE6.

Then, as phase two, I can remedy the OE6 issue after a more
careful review of various email clients.

The other issue is that my wife uses this system. If I get it all
torn up in the middle of a migration, she is not going to be a
happy camper if her email identity(s) are not working. Luckily,
our ISP has a webmail access that can be substituted during
a migration outage.

Thanks again, for everyone's knowledge. I believe this discussion
has saved me from some costly(aka mistakes) false starts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OE6 is a part of IE6 and are  also a part of your XP OS. You cannot remove
IE6. All you do is install IE8 and it takes over, leaving IE6 silently
keeping OE working.

Download IE8 to your Desktop. Do not use Windows or Microsoft Updates.

Internet Explorer 8 download:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/worldwide-sites.aspx

Restart your computer. With no other programs running, disable your
anti-virus program and any spyware or spam programs you may have. If you
are running a third party firewall, disable it and enable the Windows
firewall.

Now install IE8 from the Desktop. When you are done, restart your computer
twice and then make sure your disabled programs are running again.

Also see: How to solve Internet Explorer 8 installation problems
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949220
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Oct. 1, 2004 ~ Sept. 30, 2010
Imperial Beach, CA

Bruce

Why do you say not to use MS Updates?  I am pretty sure that is how I got to
IE8.  I do not recollect any installation problems.

DAS
--
To reply directly replace 'nospam' with 'schmetterling'
--

[...]

Most people will not have any problems, but enough have that made removing
IE8 and reinstalling necessary for them. One reason is that those that
just let it install never bother to turn off their AV program. Not to
mention that if you use the site I showed, you can download and save it
and then you can close your connection to the Internet making it safe to
disable your AV.

Also, just as with a Service Pack, another advantage is being able to save
the download to CD for future use if needed.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Oct. 1, 2004 ~ Sept. 30, 2010
Imperial Beach, CA

Thx.

DAS
--
To reply directly replace 'nospam' with 'schmetterling'
--

o
ave
got
.
x
you




That was my question also DAS. I use update to apply all
service to this system. Thanks for asking, and thanks Bruce,
for supplying the answer and instructions.